Bad Customer Service

So according to MSN, which company has the worst customer service? Can you guess?

It's Sprint! According to this article they listed the top 10 worse customer service companies. Rounding out the top 10 is B of A, Comcast, Time Warner Cable, AT&T, Citibank, Wal-mart, Verizon, Wells Fargo, and DirecTv. Dishonorable mentions include Dell, Circuit City, Best Buy, Home Depot, Sears, and Macy's.

I'm not surprised that Sprint topped the list. I've had quite a few run-ins myself with them. And like many I often felt like jumping off the bridge while talking to and waiting for a customer service rep.

In fact it was with Sprint which sold my account information and had a false account created which wasn't paid and sent to collections. Rather than contacting me directly Sprint went straight to a Collection Agency. When I called they refused to talk and work with me. Instead they stonewalled me and refused to acknowledge some insider had sold my information. Ever since I've had major issues with Sprint.

As for the rest, well what can I say? Read this article about a nice little old lady charged with assault against Comcast. I feel for her, sometimes I feel like that when I talk to Verizon. They have terrible customer service and often I'm put on hold for at least an hour.

But these companies all have major monopolies and a death grip on their consumer. People with cell phones will rarely change because they often choose companies based on which provide their friends and family have. Or where we lived in San Diego, there was only 1 cable company provider, so to get any TV you had to use Time Warner Cable. So of course they can treat customers poorly when there is no other option. Same thing with banks, there often are limited choices with the consolidation of bigger banks buying out smaller banks. There are less branches and atms, so people are stuck with few choices.

But what can the consumer do other then complain? We are guilty of using these services. I hate B of A, but they have many branches and our company paid for a mortgage through B of A. It seemed easier than trying to move our mortgage and checking.

Do you have any companies you hate or won't use?

Poll Votes: How many CC do you have?

The results are in. Most people (15, 71% of voters) have between 1-2 cards. A few (3, 14% of voters) have no credit card. An equal number have between 3-4 cards (3, 14% of voters). And no one appears to have more than 5 credit cards.

I believe I have more than 5 credit cards. Admittedly I use pretty much two cards, one mastercard and an american express for Costco. But I have never cancelled the other cards we have. I know we have a discover card, best buy, home depot, and Jordan's credit card. I'm not sure if we have any more. Since we don't use them I probably should call and cancel them and make sure no charges have been made. But laziness ensues where I don't feel like taking the time to cancel the cards or look for them. I also need to pull my credit report.

Christmas Budget

I've been slowly decreasing the amount we need to spend at Christmas. I now send a $25 Harry and David Gift Basket to multiple people in the family. My grandmother, great-grandmother, great aunt, 4 siblings, 3 aunts/uncles, 4 cousins, and two parents. The number used to be so much larger when I bought for all my neices and nephews.

But I decided about 2 years ago after we got married, that I would do family gifts. I felt more like a "married" person and grown up than a kid just sending out gifts. I never sent to my siblings instead we would send each kid a $25 GC to a store. Plus my parents, grandparents all got individual gifts as well.

Now we just spend about $750 because I try to give a gift around $25. Before it was a lot higher with so many individual presents. Also we spend a bit more than the $25/per family because for our parents we'll be giving out $100 GC to Ruth's Chris. Plus we usually buy something for our office, like a box of candy. It's so much less stressful than trying to pick gifts which people will like.


Also this year since we'll be alone together and at home, I'm thinking of actually buying DH a gift. Usually we don't but I may ask him to splurge and have an extravagent dinner out in Vancouver, but we'll see.

How much do you budget for Christmas?

Christmas package updated..

Well we booked our package for whistler. Not the cheapest deal, but a pretty good rate. The worse part about booking it was the weak dollar made us pay 10% more because the US dollar is so low compared with the Canadian dollar. arrgh.

So what'd we get? We booked 4 nights in Whistler at the Hilton hotel. Beautiful luxury hotel. I've noticed my DH has been less and less inclined to stay at cheap roach motels. Since I conceded this vacation as his 30th birthday present I can't complain. Plus we included 3 out of 4 days skiing at Whistler-Blackcomb. Combined price of the package is $1042 including taxes.

Right now the trip total is $1042 + 90 flights + $350 dog boarding = $1482. Whew, it seems like a lot, and we haven't even booked a few days in Vancover, eating out, and activities. I wonder if we can do the 8 days for $3k? The biggest expense of the trip was the Whistler hotel and snowboarding lift tickets. Snowboarding each was $180 at least. This might be our only snowboarding trip of the year.

I am just hating the weak US dollar. I remember when the $1 USD was worth $1.6 CAD. That would have made the trip more palatable. Although right now travelling anywhere with the USD is a bad idea.

Dog's Health Plan

I pay $30.95/month for each of our dog's health plans. It is the Banfield Optimum Wellness Plan. My dogs have Basic Plus Plan.

This includes annual vaccines, two comprehensive physical exams, annual dental cleaning, and blood and urine analysis. Also included is tests for lyme disease, heartworms, parasites, etc. Another bonus is at any time we can get a health certificate for travel, which usually costs $50/certificate. Also any extra care is given at a 15% discount. I've found their rates to be competitive with other vets in the area.

The best part of the plan is our ability to see a vet at any time without a fee. Typically an office visit costs $45-50/visit. And because Banfield is nationwide in many Petsmarts, you are allowed to go to any Banfield pet hospital and see a vet free. This is awesome. Once while camping, our dog got a tick and we rushed to a nearby Banfield Hospital.

I guess the question is it worth what we are paying for? We pay $371.40/annually. If we took our dogs in annually once, with vaccinations I think we would spend $150-200/year. So about 40% of the cost of our plan. The difference could be saved in case of emergency or if our dogs needed more care beyond the vaccines. However yesterday I rushed my older dog Stefan to the doctor again after finding a tick on him, and I didn't have to pay the $45 office visit fee.

I think it might be a bit cheaper to go ala carte with dog care, but as our older dog is now almost 12 years old, I think it's better to keep a close eye on his health and monitor more carefully than just one quick visit a year.

Of course the cheapest alternative would be to not worry about it, until he's really old and then just put him to sleep. But that just isn't our philosophy.

Do you have a health plan for your animals? What do you normally spend on them annually?

October Spending and Net Worth Update

We had a pretty good month overall. We spent $271 on groceries for the month of October. Not bad considering we had guests again for the first two weeks of the month. Plus we spent $224 eating out. Also good considering we had guests for part of the month as well. Also within the $224, was the $79.99 spent on McCormick's Gift Certificates which we still have $50 to eat out with. So overall a pretty decent month on food. What I've noticed is that the price of food has increased a lot over the year, considering I keep a price book and I haven't seen as many deals on foods as I used to. It feels as though food has increased exponentially this year.

Unfortunately with guests we were out and about more than usual and spent $193 on gas for the car. Down from our high of $229 in September. However I've noticed gas is creeping up again, so perhaps it's time to adjust our monthly budget from $120 to $140. We typically fill up about 1 week @ almost $30/tank. I rarely drive and DH switches the cars out so we get balanced usage of the cars.

Other than that our spending was pretty much the same in all budgeted categories.

As far as our networth went we increased our net worth by 3.04%. We increased our retirement by $3117 and our cash on hand was up to $11k. However, since the beginning of the month I noticed that our cash on hand is already down to $5k. Typical of our fixed bills. Looking back 1 year ago our retirement was at $29k and currently is at $68k. I see we're making significant progress in our savings. When I figure out our ESPP that will increase our monthly savings, although it mostly is for DH's tuition.

One stock shot...

I am firmly against investing in a company you work for. Why? Because you believe in the company probably more than regular investors. You work there, you buy into the company mentality. You often assume you know more about the company than other people. Also because you work there you often believe in the product and it's potential. And you often turn a blind eye to competitors and faults of the company. Why?

You work there. If you were not a believer why work there. Why dedicate yourself to the company.

Last year DH cajoled me into keeping his company stock because he really believed in the company. Personally, I wanted to sell and thought that it was a bad idea to invest anything in the company. So what happened? We lost about 50% on the stock and had to pay taxes on the original amount. It was given to use as company stock at $45 and dropped to $24.

I'm a pretty conservative investor, give me an index fund and I'm happy. DH loves big gains and his mom always hypes individual stocks. But recently she's finally taken my advice (and Warren Buffet's from 9/07 Money magazine), that index/ETF mutual funds are teh way to go. I guess we'll see how a year goes and she may yell at me or not. I think not.

Right now, we're in the position of rebalancing our portfolio and making choices for the end of the year. I want to get out of his company stock finally and dump it. I don't think it has potential for going up and I believe the risk (beta) is high it could tank.

So the question now is do we dump our position in his old company (he left for other reasons), or hold onto it in his 401k? We've left the 401k alone for now, but I'd love to consolidate it into his current position. But in order to do so we'd have to dump his company stock, which he really feels is going up.

Consumption Tax?

The question was raised on a message board about what sort of tax is fair. Interestingly the majority of people voted for a consumption tax. What is the consumption tax?

Basically it is a tax by the government on the purchase of a good or service. It is based on someone consuming a good or using a service but not a tax on the labor or material of the good or service. In some ways it is identical to a sales tax.

In order for this to be a workable system, taxpayers would still need to be given exemptions and deductions based on number of family members. This to ensure poor people and those with large families do not pay to consume goods. Also all savings would be deductible under a consumption tax system.

Surprisingly a number of people on the message board were in favor of this new tax rate. I was very surprised. Why? Because most of these people were middle class families, with one primary breadwinner, and two children.

Hence their actual federal tax rate after deductions, personal exemptions, child tax credit is less than 5% and many actually got money back from the federal government in form of child tax credit. If this is the case why are these people in favor of a consumption tax? They will pay a ton more in taxes because they definitely consume more than 5% of their incomes.

However, I think they do not even realize how much they consume. Nor how little they pay under the current regressive tax system. I think that these middle class consumers haven't considered the entire repercussions of changing the tax system.

I think more than a consumption tax a better way would be a flat income tax. More about that another day though.

Forced Charitable Giving?

I was reading on a message board about people who are forced to give to United Way at work. It seems that many of the larger companies pressure workers to give. Companies get plaques and recognition for a higher number of contributors from the company. It makes the company look like a member of the community.

I think it can be a good thing if the company matches donations to any charity. But to require giving by employees seems to take it a step too far. I am happy that DH's company matches 100% of charitable giving up to $1000/year. It's a nice bonus just to make employees feel good.

Although I like the idea of companies matching giving, I am appalled that companies feel it's giving when they are forcing or "encouraging" people to give strongly.

Flex Spending Account...

It's open enrollement time again. I'm not sure how much to put in this year. I wanted to get lasik eye surgery in 2008, but I'm not sure. I consulted the doctor and was told that yes pregnancy does change your vision. Stupid, but I should have done it last year or two. But I had to wait for my vision to stabilize. Arrgh. I hate being caught between a rock and a hard place.

But the choice is pretty difficult and we only have 2 weeks to decide. If I do it, I'll max out the FSA with $5k. I also have to consider if I would like to have some dental work done. I find it difficult to make these decisions so quickly.

Also if we get pregnant this year, we probably should set more aside. All these decisions to be made quickly. I wonder if we should overestimate or underestimate the number? And if so by how much?

Rich versus Wealthy...

So on a message board someone asked what's the difference between rich versus wealthy? Rich people spend their money in 1 generation, maybe 2 if they are lucky. Wealthy people pass it on for generations building upon it. I thought interesting way to look at it. This was referring to the press article about Britney Spear's spending habits.

Spears is just another star spending lavishly. However the question arises how long can she keep up this lifestyle? The really rich person is probably the one managing her money and writing her a check. Hence she's rich, but the other guy is probably wealthy.

To further the example her ex-hubby K-Fed made $500k last year in endorsements but only grossed $7500 after expenses. How does he maintain the lavish lifestyle? He had got $22k/month in spousal support and $15k/month in child support. But soon that will end and what will he live on? Another case of being rich, but not wealthy?

Is that an adequate description of rich versus wealthy?

Using Mileage...

Tonight my DH spent about 3 hours trying to book our Christmas vacation. We decided to try and use our mileage on United. Typically our schedules are not flexible enough to use mileage. But this time since we're going on vacation ourselves without visiting family, we decided to go whenever was available.

This trip is DH's 30th birthday. But we're trying to cheap out and use our mileage plans and CC rebates to pay for the trip. As of right now we're going to Vancouver/Whistler. The biggest expense will definitely be our snowboarding tickets @ $60/day.

To use our mileage it will cost 25k miles for a roundtrip ticket on United. According to flight groups online, to get the best deal for your mileage it should be calculated at 2 cents/mile. So our tickets should be at least $500/each to make it worthwhile. Currently tickets for this trip would cost about $500 including taxes. So while not the best deal possible, a reasonable return. It however will cost us $45/per person to use the miles.

Though we managed to use 25k miles I found that it difficult to use them. There are so many limitations and it took so long book. I wonder if it was worth the trouble?

Happy Halloween!

Happy Halloween. I guess my only little financial thing today is how many children are going to show up today? I bought two bags of M&Ms, peanuts and regular to give out. Last year I bought a box from Costco and I had tons extra.

This year I'm hoping enough kids come so that I don't have any extra. Unfortunately I have yet to have one trick or treater. What is going on? I used to be so excited to go trick or treating. I loved getting candy.

If not I guess I should donate the candy or get DH to take it to work. It's not the fact it was $4 for the 2 bags, but I will gain weight if I sit here and eat all the candy. Sigh.

Hope everyone else has better luck.

Festival of Frugality #98

The Festival of Frugality #98 is up at beingfrugal.net. Looks like a great festival. My article "Dining in can be expensive" was submitted.

A couple of articles I liked were "Top 10 Cheapest ways to exercise" by silicon valley blogger, and "Do vacations spoil you for normal".

My thoughts on cheap exercise is the way to go. Though living in CA, I had a great deal on a gym I used year round. Now out east, well let's say gyms are no longer cheap so I have to exercise outdoors/indoors alone. Ugh. I prefer the gym because the weather out here isn't the best.

And going on vacation spoils me because I hate going to work!

401k Match Bonus...

Every November the company my DH works for goes over their benefits and improves them. They also have open enrollement. Right now I'm debating eye insurance but that's another day.

For now I'm bursting with supreme happiness. Wowsa! DH got some fantastic news. Turns out the company has decided to do away with the vesting schedule with the 401k match. No more 3 years to vest. Fantastic. That means the 6% they've been contributing is ours immediately!

That's tremendous, it's like a 6% raise to DH's salary, without doing anything. DH complained he won't see the money until retirement, but every penny saved is a penny we don't have to save. Anyway it's nice to see our little nest egg growing fasting and knowing it's all ours. We don't have to subtract out the unvested portion anymore.

Plus, this new company every two weeks they deposit the 401k instead of the old company which took 6-8 weeks to make a deposit. And it every quarter they would make the match however it would the quarter after that the match would occur.

What a nice bonus.

Great Deal Eating Out...

I found a coupon for $25 for McCormick's and Schmick's. So yesterday we went to MS and had dinner. I had the monkfish, DH had the bluefish, and we shared the quahog appetizer. I took home half my meal and ate it for lunch.

The Monkfish was $20.95, Bluefish $18.90, and Quahog $8.85 the total bill was $48.70. The tax was $2.44 and the total was $51.14. So the $25 was applied and the final bill was $26.14. But I used a $50 gift card to MS. I bought 2 $50 GC to McCormick's = $100 for $80, basically a 20% discount. Also because I used am AmEx CC I get back 3%. So our bill including tip was $35.14. But we only paid 77% = $27 including tip!

For a seafood meal out for the two of us I was impressed with the deal. Plus they have a diner club where you get $1=1 point spent. So after 500 points you get a GC for $25. Another bonus.

Yes I could cook some of this fish at home, and I do, but I also enjoy eating out. And for a deal like this it cost less than going out to eat TGIF, Applebee's, etc.

Carnival of Personal Finance #124

The Carnival of Personal Finance #124 is up at the Millionaire Mommy Next Door. She did a simply awesome job. It is very well organized and beautifully done.

I submitted my question on Going Carless. Lots of great articles. I reccomend you checking them out. She has a poll going with different categories. And the winner in each category gets a free blog.

Anyway couple of great articles to check out, "the quiet millionaire" and "why personal finance is personal." Lots to read.

Poll: Lying to a spouse

72% of people say they never lie to their spouse about finances and 27% say just a little lies to their spouses. Very interesting. No one actually admitted to lying to their spouse.

I find that strange because there are many people who are in debt, and say their spouse refuses to listen or participate. On the Women In Red message board, there are women who hide their debt from their spouses. Often afraid of letting their spouses know the real truth.

For example, on Oprah this past week there was a woman $135k in debt. Yep you read that right, not a mortgage, but CC debt. And her husband had no idea. He had ignored their finances and left them entirely to her. So is it considered lying or denial on the part of the husband?

So I find it great that most people don't lie to their significant others. So if you have debt then your SO knows all about it?

Personally I think DH and I both tell over/underestimation of costs. We never sit there and lie but we do forget to metion some expenses etc. But nothing big, anything over $20 we discuss. But the details are sometimes fuzzy.

Cell Phone Data Plan...

My DH wants to add a data plan to his cell phone for $10/month. I am against this. Now I'm about to sound extremely cheap, but please try where I'm coming from. First, DH works all day and the cell phone is barely used. I don't know how and why he really needs to be texting people and surfing the web from the phone, when he has a laptop at work and at home. I feel it's just because everyone else has it he wants it. He wanted an iphone, which I said if he saved his blow money $10/week he could buy it.

Yes he earns a good income and we don't have debt, but I don't like the idea of increasing our fixed monthly expenses. Already I feel that our monthly expenses are huge. We have cable, internet, and phone. Cable is even premium with HD, DVR and movie channels.

Should I agree to adding on the $10 data plan we should cut the movie channels? Is this unreasonable? It's just $10/month, but I feel if we keep justifying these expenses they add up fast.

I really have become the saver in the relationship where he used to. He's been changing a lot since MBA school where now he wants a new car. When we meet (8 years ago), he called me foolish for wanting a nice car. He said it was to get from point A to B. But now he feels like we're poor compared to other students. I just want to scream about we are not going to finance anything. I already hate we're taking out $8500/year to pay for his private MBA and cash flowing the other $10k/year. Most people in school with him are 100% loans. We're saving maximum for retirement and paying 50%+ of the tuition, books, etc.

I feel that this is a slippery slope to be walking down.

Dining in can be expensive...

In this article by msn, the author claims that it's more expensive to cook than to dine in. The truth is that it is always cheaper to eat in. However, it is true that eating in can be expensive.

The real comparison is determining the if the exact meal you prepare at home is as expensive as restaurant food. The article claims that a man claims to have spent $30 for the couple cooking, shopping, and preparing a meal. But the same meal would only be $17 from a restaurant.

I find this rather hard to believe. For example as a couple we had two very expensive meals over the weekend. We had cajun scallops and NY strip steak both courtesy of Costco. The scallops were $9.99/lb and the steak $6.49/lb.

Now we ate a one pound of scallops + cajun style rice, entire meal for two with rice, veggies, salad, scallops = $12. However, maybe an hour of prep time which could be $50. BUT because we're both salary we don't get extra pay for working that hour so it really only cost $12. Plus for us to both eat scallop dish at a cajun restaurant it would be easily $18/plate = $36 without tip and tax. How is eating out cheaper?

Second example is eating the NY steak. That would easily cost us $25/plate but we ate it for $8 for the two of us sharing a 1 lb steak and all the fixings. $8 versus $50 doesn't seem like much comparison.

And yet we all eat out. The reason? Convience. There are some meals which are just easier to easier to eat out. My DH hates making ravioli, so we usually eat it out or buy it premade. He also hates making pizza nowadays.

But reality also is that there are some foods which are impossible to make. More ethnic foods like Indian curries which have expensive spices that can be difficult to find. We enjoy eating out those foods which are cheap to make if you already have all the ingredients on hand, but difficult otherwise.

I don't think you can compare eating out with cooking at home. Do you think it's cheaper to eat out?

Going Carless...

I have been thinking more and more about trying to go carless. Downsizing and getting rid of both of our cars and getting 1 car. But DH isn't buying it. He likes the freedom of having two cars. We only have two cars because where we lived apart for 2 years in Southern CA. It was impossible without two cars.

So we ate the major depreciation on the cars before we even arrived out East. When we first moved we thought about selling one of the cars. But then my DH got into 3 car accidents immediately and we negated the idea. But we've been fortunately accident free since then. I still rarely drive my car, though we have had issues with the focus.

So I decided to run a couple of numbers about how much we'd save by selling one car. We might get $4k for the Focus. Plus we would not have to pay for insurance and maintanence. Insurance would be $75/month savings we would have 2 drivers, 1 car, and no discount for multi-car. The gas would not drop much because we'd be carpooling, but DH drives to work daily, and I would need a monthly transit pass. Currently I carpool, bike, and use public transit occasionally. The pass would cost $90/month. So the savings might be close to a wash because I don't use pass now but rather pay as I go. The pass works best if you use the transit daily, and I can catch rides 50% of the time and biked daily during the summer.

I wonder if it would still be worth it? We basically would net the $4k for sale of the car. The monthly savings would be minimally. The biggest factor holding us back is the Focus is the car we use for hauling stuff around, going camping, going snowboarding. But it is a more unreliable car. The corolla doesn't have fold down seats and carry as much. But we'd have to keep it because it's so much more reliable.

I guess we still should discuss it more. I wonder if the convience factor is worth the $4k?

Pros and Cons of Landlording...

What are the pros and cons of being a landlord? I think there are many. On any financial board there is always someone asking the question of whether it's worth it being a landlord. And there are those who say it's great and those who say it's not. However the reality is that even landlords will tell you it's not an easy job.

The obvious pros of landlording, is having someone else pay your mortgage. If you buy a house in an area where rents are high and mortgages are low you'll come out ahead. Along with an enforced savings by paying off the mortgage, a landlord is able to reap the benefits of home appreciation. They are able to diversify their portfolio with investments other than stocks. Also in retirement, after the mortgage is paid off it a rental property can provide an alternative stream of income.

However, there are many cons against owning rental properties and becoming a landlord. First, renters do not care for the place like an owner. Thus, typically most rentals are trashed and require more $$ for upkeep. What sort of upkeep? Well if a water heater breaks on a weekend you can't tell the renter to wait, you need to fix it asap. Unlike being frugal at home, with a rental you have to fix the house immediately, not wait for a good deal.

Second, the possibility of a renter not paying and needing to be evicted. Or being unable to find a renter and having a property sit vacant. This means needing to have amount of cashflow to carry the property during times when the mortgage isn't being paid by the renter.

Third, landlords often have to carry extra insurance in case their renters get hurt or have someone visiting who is injured on the property. They should also form an LLC and protect their other assets in case any renter/visitor sues them.

But overall I think the pros and cons balance out. The main thing is finding a property which will have a return on investment of at least 8% annually by having a strong positive cash flow. I would never be a landlord if the rent generated by the property did not cover the mortgage, insurance, and 10% maintenance costs. If not I think the money and time would be better spent invested in index mutual funds.

Another factor is being a landlord takes time. If you hire a management company they will take 10% of the rent which increases the amount needed to generate a positive cashflow on the property. Hence it could be a good retirement or job for a stay at home parent. But it might be too time consuming for people working full-time.

California Foreclosure

Okay so I now know someone going into foreclosure over $50k. I don't know if this is a wise move or not. Yes it's a lot of money. And yes the person does have the $50k to pay it off, but they refuse to "throw good money, after bad."

The question, is this a smart move or not? The foreclosure will ruin the person's credit. However, is it worth ruining one's credit over $50k?

I guess it's much like bankruptcy. For one person $50k is enough to drive them to declare. While for others having $300k in debt is nothing. It depends on the situation.

Would I do it? Probably not, mainly because there are too many variables which could arise from the foreclosure. It will make finding another job more difficult. It can make getting any loans more difficult. But I say the same thing about BK. However I realize I could quickly end up in either position given the right circumstances.

I wonder though if this is the right move? To the friend, my advice was to carefully consider if it is worth doing just for $50k. That's barely more than what they paid for their fancy car.

CA wildfires...

I am hoping our friends home in CA are fine. They've all evacuated from the Rancho Bernardo area, Irvine area, etc. My best friend's house was very close to the wildfires. She was within 3 blocks of the fires. Our other friends also are hoping to hear news about their house. Right now they are just watching and waiting.

I guess this is a good reason to keep your insurance up to date. My best friend hadn't made her payment, but she caught up on Sunday. She was being lazy. Geez.

Car...what you need or want?

DH and I went to look at a couple of used cars this weekend. We specifically were looking at Subarus because of the space and AWD. We had never test driven or even seen a subaru. We just picked a Subaru outback, legacy, & impreza based on what everyone we work with and live by has said.

So we saw a pretty good deal on a used 2004 Subaru Outback Station wagon. But while we were there we also saw the new 2008 impreza wagon. They were similar in price $17k for the impreza and $13k for the outback.

We were very impressed with the handling of both cars. We were also very happy with the larger space in both cars than what we currently drive. But we realized that the two cars we saw were very different cars. The Outback was substantially larger than the Impreza. We decided we would start thinking about replacing my DH's Focus next year but we needed to nail down a target price range and car specifically.

DH preferred the Impreza, while I preferred the Outback. So we talked in the car. The Impreza is a car which we might have to replace in 3-4 years after we start our family. It's a little larger than our cars and has a bit more storage space. The Outback is easily a car we could fit 2 children, dogs, and stuff into.

DH said a car is a car, you should drive what you want. I think we should look long term and buy something which will be usable longer than just a few years. This lead to the discussion whether you should buy a car you can use 90% of the time or a car you think you'll use 70% longer term?

My DH's argument is that we'll use the smaller car for 90% of the time for the next 3-4 years. Then if we have to trade it in for something larger because of necessity, then at that time you reevalute it. He equated it to buying a stock, you reevaluate at each point in time. You buy a car you will use for 90% of the time and rent if necessary.

I pointed out that cars depreciate quickly. That if we bought even a used car, it would depreciate in 3-4 years and we'd again have to be dumping more money on the table to buy another new used car in 3-4 years. If we moved up into an Outback from an Impreza, then we'd eat a harsher depreciation, time, energy expended buying another car versus just buying a car we can grow into till it dies.

It's a difficult financial decision. So do you buy a car you need or want? Is it purely a financial decision?

So as you can see this is about 1-2 years away our decision but we need to start planning and looking. I would like to pick up something used. And it would be lovely if something would just drop in our lap. But we have to keep our eyes open and our finances ready just in case.

Review: Debt Consolidation Site

I said I'd write an unbiased, objective review of the Debt Consolidation Care Website. First of all this is a website for people who are in debt and attempting to get out of debt. This website does not appear to be associated with any financial "guru" or celebrities like Suze Orman, Dave Ramsey, David Bach, etc.

They provide a service where they help people to get out of debt. The first way they do is this by suggesting that people consolidate debt through them. This is supposed to lower interest rates and make the monthly debt payment more manageable. This appears to a standard service. Because I am not consolidating any debt, I did not attempt to try out the program.

The second part of their website, is the forum discussing debt. The forums covers a broad range of topics including getting out of debt, bankruptcy, and getting loans after ruining your credit. The topics in this area seemed well organized and easy to follow. It appears that many people have a lot of experience in dealing with creditors and how to pay them off. This area also appears to give support to those getting out of debt. This area does not however suggest cutting up any and all credit cards, etc. Rather it stresses getting out of debt but not being critical of those still using credit.

The third part of the website is blogs of people getting out of debt. The blogs do not appear to be the typical blogs I enjoy visiting, but I'm sure there are many blogs which would be helpful for those interested in reading blogs about digging out of debt.

Fourth, there is a section to read about how to get out of debt under articles. I really liked this section and felt there was a lot of information well organized into topics. Also the calculators for determining how long it will take you to get out of debt and how much to pay is easy to use.

Overall this is a very easy to use website. It looks like it could be supportive of those getting out of debt. It might be a starting point for those looking to improve their financial situation.

Curbing a spender?

If you are a saver in a relationship with a spender how do you curb a spender? Do you just budget all the necessary expenses and savings and allow the spender to use the rest? Do you ask for guidelines that they are allowed to spend $X per month or pay period?

When asked by the old roommate, about merging finances as an older couple, she mentioned her S.O was a spender. She has always been a saver. So so doubted that if they married, she would be able to curb his spending habits.

So the question arose how do you manage the situation? The easiest answer is marry/cohabitate with someone who has common financial habits. But that's easier said than done. I know I have it relatively easy because I'm married to a saver, while I'm considered in the relationship the spender. Which seems quite a stretch when compared I would say against the average. But to curb my own spending, is I typically ask myself "Do I really need it?" And I put down an item and promise to come back another day and get it if I really do want it.

So what creative methods have you found to curb your spendy partner's habit?

Coupon Update #5

Unfortunately I haven't been using my coupons very much. I am overstock on health and beauty aids for at least 3 years. And I am somewhat stocked on certain foods.

But I've still found that the majority of the food we buy and eat aren't huge coupon savers. One area I've started eating is Oatmeal. I eat it everyday for breakfast, so I suppose I can save a lot on a box of oatmeal.

But overall buying meat and fresh veggies hasn't changed. I've gone to eating frozen veggies, but my DH doesn't like it. He prefer fresh veggies and complains about it. So I try to do one day fresh, one day frozen. Apparently the vitamins provided by frozen veggies are substantially less than fresh/raw veggies because it doesn't withstand the freezing process

Has my couponing this year been a help or hindrance? I'm still debating, I think it's been more work than it's worth. But I did learn about getting free/cheap shampoo, toothpaste, deodorant, etc. So maybe it's not a complete waste of time.

I am doing still doing it but very, very slowly.

Dental Update #3...

To summarize, I refused to pay $350 for a cancelled dental appointment in July. I have sent back proof about changing insurance, I have sent proof the dental office was not eligible for coverage with my new insurance (they are but OUT OF NETWORK). I called and reported them to the insurance company, and it turns out they have been reported multiple times for violations of misleading people to get work done when it wasn't covered.

I have written two more letters saying I'm not paying it. Got another 3rd letter saying I'm responsible for the $350.

What are my options? My DH says to keep saying I'm not paying. This time to explain the cost of the cancellation was way above the reasonable guidelines of the state. They were deceptive, which they were but refuse to acknowledge. I also reported them to the state dental office, but hey they obviously don't care and have been reported before.

Can they send it to collections? How will this affect my credit? What are their recourse? Should I offer to settle for $50?

New Poll: Lying to a significant other?

The question is whether you tell financial lies to a significant other? Most people I guess will say no. However I wonder if it's really true or it depends on how you define lie?

In general I would have to say I don't lie to my spouse. However, I do sometimes get the numbers wrong and hence I do think I tell white lies to my spouse about our finances. Like what?

Well I bought this shirt for $8.99, I might say $10. Or I got a haircut for $40, but it was $42. Just sort of a rounding of numbers. I noticed my DH does it as well, he'll round up and down and be in the ballpark of the number. However later I might see the charge or he'll see the charge and ask why is it $X?

Is that a lie or just a slip of the tongue? Is it important? Should we be counting every penny and accounting for it?

Also is not telling your significant other the $ amount a lie? Where I go grocery shopping and he knows I went or sometimes not, and never realizes what I just bought? Should I say I went shopping this evening and spend $40 (more likely $37.xx). Or is it just water under the bridge?

Retirement Poll Results

Wow. Looks like people reading the site are doing great in saving for retirement. The poll closed this evening and it appears that 45% of readers have saved more than $100k for retirement. 18% have between $25-100k, and 31% have less than $25k, and only 1 person doesn't have retirement savings.

This is quite remarkable considering the average savings rate in US is supposed to be 1-2%. And that the average retirement savings in the US is $45k.

Great job! I look forward to joining the $100k club as well.

Why Tip?

Do you wonder why the US the only country where tipping is expected? That is most other countries they include tips in the price of food? The prices of services have already factored in the "tip".

I would prefer that we not tip as a society and instead increase the price of services. That way people don't have to sit and wonder about tipping. They don't have to ponder how much to tip a dog groomer, dog walker. Or what's appropriate for a cabbie who doesn't help you with your door and bags. Or do you need to tip your hair stylist every time and then extra at Christmas? Or your babysitter every time and Christmas as well.

These so called rules get very complicated and confusing quickly. It seems like you need to tip for every possible service in the US. Eating out, carrying a bag, delivering an item, etc. Often you feel awkward and unsure not only about whether to tip but how much?

If we moved to a system where a tip was considered a bonus I think it would be so much easier. We wouldn't have to worry so much about offending the tippee. Plus I think that the people expecting to be tipped outrageous.

Nowadays everywhere you go, there is a tip jar next to the register. Which leads me to wonder just for punching a cash register I need to leave a tip? Basically every time I spend a penny someone else is looking for more money?

Would it stop you from purchasing an item if it was a bit higher and no tip was necessary? I think not. It might make you consider your purchases more, but you'd feel it was more worth it because you wouldn't have worry if you were "breaking" the rule by not tipping.

Would you pay more to stop tipping? Or is tipping just part of the culture and too ingrained? Or are we moving towards overtipping?

Cell Phones...

We're out of our 2 year contract for cell phones and we're starting again. Our Motorola Razrs have been pretty much dead for the past 6 months. But we've been waiting until our contract was up so we could just get new free phones.

Of course to get the new free phones cost us signing another 2 year contract. I wonder if it's worth it? Would I really cancel my cell phone? When we lived in CA, we only had cell phones and didn't have a landline. As we were living apart during the week, it was cheaper than paying for 2 landlines. Plus I was able to chat for free with my parents, friends, and family.

But the phone my DH wanted was $79, so he talked to customer service and explained the need for retention of customers. After discussing with him our reasons for staying with Cingular they agreed and gave us the same phone for free. Here's the Sony Ericsson 580i we got for free.

I guess as usual it never hurts to ask. But we do have another 2 year contract. Would I live without a phone? Probably not and if I were broke enough to try my mom would buy me a spare line and give me the phone.

She'd die if I tried to go without a landline or cell phone. My mom's paranoid, in college I didn't answer the dorm phone so she sent the cops to check out my room. And then she had a peephole installed because I couldn't tell who was knocking. So I consider it an investment in my mom's nagging.

How much do you make???

Do you know how much other people make? I don't, I can guess based on their purchases and spending habits. At least I think so. But I could be completely wrong as well.

This came up because my mom was talking about how my Uncle knows exactly how much each of his kids make, and their spouses/SO make as well. She was so surprised. She couldn't believe that after meeting my cousin's girlfriend they knew as a nurse she makes $60k/year.

Which brought up and interesting question, my mom began to hint how much we make. I said enough, which is strange right? But my parents have never been honest about their finances, and until recently I had no idea exactly how well/poorly they were doing.

Then I was thinking, if DH and I can't even share how much we make with our own parents, how are others so open? How do they just spill all their financial details in real life? I'm more open here on my blog than in real life.

Do you know how much your friend's and family make? Do you share details of your financial life freely?

Broken Window

We have new double paned storm windows. Today the plumber came in to do our gas line and he opened two windows and broke the latches on both. He muscled the windows opened and I now noticed that the windows are unable to latch.

I am not sure how to bring up that he broke both latches. They were working fine because I've opened and closed both windows recently.

Should I let it go or tell him about it?

Webkinz...

I'm a bit behind my the times. As I find out last minute what the hot toys are. This year apparently my neice wants webkinz.

It's this toy where you purchase this doll, right now the hot seasonal item is a black cat, and you take this doll and register it online. Then you are able to play in this online world of games with your friends.

In this online world you shop and buy Kinzcash to pay for stuff. It's pretty nifty way to suck up the parent money. The toy itself isn't that expensive I think $10-15, but once a child has one they become addicted to having more and more toys within their collection. And they need to spend more money online to play games with friends.

Well I suppose my $10 gift will cost my sister a bunch of money more...oh well. Brillant marketing scheme.

Tithing versus Time Donation

I read the website Need To Be Debt Free, and think they are working really hard in pursuit of getting out of debt. They made over $10k net last month in income by working 2 jobs and overtime at their primary jobs. They worked something like 12-16 hours a day. I don't know if I could make that sacrifice to get out of debt by losing time spent with my family, but I do understand.

Anyway though, they mention a lot about tithing. Any extra money they make they tithe, or give 10%. I think it's fine, but I have suggested that they donate their time in exchange of money so they can get out debt faster and thus spend more time at the church and with family. I suggested that they divide the amount of money they feel they owe by their hourly rate and help the church by making flyer, stuffing envelopes, cleaning, cutting grass, basically anything.

Sure we donate money to charities monthly. But personally I don't find it very satisfying. The bigger satisfaction comes from actually going to the food bank and physically helping out. Or going to the woman's shelter and donating goods and helping them organize the goods. Those feel so much better.

Our roommate is a devout muslim and faithfully donates Zagat (muslim tithe and it's 12.5%). Anyway he also teaches Sunday School and helps out with prayers. The Zagat is a starting place, but he gives more time because he feels it's important.

Thus I do understand being loyal and having to give God 10%, but is tithing just because you have to? If it's not just because you have to, then why aren't you going out and helping the church above and beyond the money? Why aren't you donating more time?

Poll: Separate or Joint Accounts?

The poll for separate or joint accounts is now closed. Strangely the majority of people 65% have joint accounts. With 25% of people having 3 accounts, 1 joint and 2 separate. And only 10% of people having separate accounts.

I thought the number of couples having 3 accounts, would be the highest number. Because it seems like most people scream that couples need their own money and control of the money. Hence I thought having a joint account with my spouse and sharing all money was abnormal. Turns out it's not as weird as it seems.

It seems like most couples prefer to share their fiscal checkbooks.

To budget or splurge???

Here's the scenario...If you were remodelling your bathroom, and found tile you loved but it cost an extra $1.40 than you budgeted/expected. Meaning you had set your budget for $5 but found stuff you loved for $6.40 instead. This extra would cost you $700 extra to finish your project. Now you had come in and extra $200 on other items for your renovation. So it would just cost $500 extra.

Now would you pay the extra $500 and buy the nicer tile? Or would you buy tile you didn't love just because it fit in the budget?

Extra information. The couple is very financially wise. In fact they try to emulate the millionaire next door theory. So they coupon shop, and sometimes go overboard with being frugal. They save the maximum in your retirement accounts, have no debt except the mortgage. In fact their mortgage is due to paid off in 6 more years at 43. You pay extra money to the mortgage every month. They can afford the $500/month because they pay $1800/month extra to the mortgage, in fact they barely break a sweat.

But what should they do? Take an extra $500 and buy the tile they like? Or not buy the tile and stick to their original budget. Also they have extra cash in other sinking funds, so they can still make their $1800/month extra mortgage payment and instead slowly pay back their extra pot of money.

What should they do?

the 25% mortgage rule...

So a lot of experts recomend "the 25% mortgage" rule. Where you're mortgage including property taxes, insurance, interest is not greater than 25% of your salary. Some suggest this on a 15 year mortgage like DR, while others are content with a 30 year fixed mortgage. But which is right?

Well the average price of a house is $220k in the US while the median price was $227k. So assume the normal price of a home to be $225k. And a DP of $45k, so the mortgage would be $180k.

Now a 15 year payment @ 6% would be $1519/month. So PITI would be assuming 1% property tax and 1% repairs/annually, and insurance $600/year = $425 extra month = $1944/month PITI. This would require a net/gross salary of $7776/month or $93k/year. How many people make $93k, which is 2x the median salary in the US to afford just the average home of $225k?

A 30 year payment @ 6.5% would be $1138/month. So with the extra $425, the PITI would be $1563/month. So a family would need to earn net/gross $6252/month or $75k/year.

Honestly how many families earn that sort of income to stay within the 25% rules? I'd be very surprised to find many.

But I think for a couple starting out a 30 year fixed is not a bad choice. It makes it easier to afford a house. Plus there is the possibility of raises to help lower the % as they increase their incomes while the mortgage stays fixed.

But the 25% is probably best a guideline. It's not hard and fast, but something to really consider before you do anything. Personally I'm right at the 30% line and it's gone down since we bought. But we did consider what it meant to go higher and lower than the rule.

Budget Busters...

How to build a budget seems to be a common question for people in debt. Seems easy but what I've found from talking to people it's not the actual drawing of the budget it's sticking to it that's tough. So perhaps cash would work best to keep people from overspending.

But what I've found the major problem for people in debt, is budget busters. What's a budget buster? Well a too large mortgage payment, excessive car payments, large CC minimums, or huge student loans. Usually I've found that people are not overly spending on eating out, buying things, etc.

But those budget busters are something which society calls acceptable. Like stretching to buy a house that takes up 30-40% of your pay. Or cars which cost 25-50% of your salary. Or student loans 3-4x your income. These budget busters are all considered acceptable by normal standards.

Sure I think student loans, mortgages, and even car loans have a place in a financial plan. But not when they are budget buster. Not when you cannot afford to budget because there isn't enough money to cover basic living expenses. Then you've overspent.

Cutting lattes, cigs, eating out, cable, internet are nice solutions to trim a budget. It would save me $300/month. BUT that's barely a car payment, monthly property tax, or student loan payment. So you'd be better off cutting one of those big ticket items to make your budget really work, then trimming the fat.

There is nothing anyone can do to make a budget stick if 100% of the salary is gone to a car, house, and student loans, before you even get to food, clothes, and fun. But maybe I'm looking at most people's budgets the wrong way.

Wanting to be the Joneses...

Okay after my old college roomie visiting for last weekend and this weekend, made me a bit jealous. Not jealous where I wish for them to have less, but hopes that I can have as much.

So they both are working full time in SF earning obviously very decent salaries. And not being married and not owning a home means they have a ton of disposable income. It became very apparent from going out with them that they are awesome DINKS with tons of earning power. I also realize that they are on vacation so their spending is not typical.

But we sat chatting and talking over dinner and wine and realized that our lifestyles have sooo dramatically changed from college and living together. We no longer consider ramen noodles a meal and we both drive reliable cars (never had one and she had such a junker it broke down all the time). The lifestyle that once looked so beyond our reach we're now enjoying.

But back to wanting to be the Joneses. We spent the day out around the town and BF forgot his sunglasses. So he just went out and bought a pair of Revo Sunglasses for $230. This just set me back a tiny bit. But I realize they work super hard and deserve everything they earn. It just made me wish I had their life.

But then I snapped back to reality and realized it doesn't matter because you have to be happy with what you make period. So my friends are the Joneses, but hey they are very kind and generous by treating us to dinner. So I'd rather keep them as friends then chasing them away.

By the way these are not my only Joneses friends. My best friend is the same. And worse is they are major savers and investors too so they aren't irresponsible.

DIY versus paying someone...

Most people would say that doing it yourself saves you a lot of money. And in general I agree. But at what point do you stop and hire someone? We've done a lot of home repair, definitely more than average and I know my DH is handy. His family did pretty much all DIY. Unfortunately they learned the hard way that you occasionally should just pay someone to do the work around the house.

For example, our condo undertook building a backyard retaining wall. Beautiful, cheap, and relatively easy. Our share was $2k, great considering the additional value. However, we also need to repair the retaining wall holding up our parking pad. That is a much larger, more labor intensive job using special tools, not just hand. Could we have undertaken rebuilding it ourselves? Yes, but the scope of the project definitely made it worth hiring not only an contractor but engineer to certify the wall.

Another example of DIY not winning out is cleaning our gutters. One of our neighbors mentioned saving $150 it costs to clean our gutter by doing it himself. We nixed the idea when because we have a 5 story house and if he fell down, he'd die. Sure we'd have insurance, but there are some cases where it's better to hire a licensed/bonded professional who can accept the risk of falling off a roof. Besides the point that they are less likely to fall off the roof because they are an experience professional.

I guess the question is how to measure when a job even a small job is worth paying for because of risk, and a larger scope job is worth investing the time to do.

September Spending Wrap Up

Well I decided to sit and tally our spending for the month of September. This month was a lot harder to keep track of expenses, because we've had so many guests and still do. Unfortunately I didn't track our cash spending as well as I usually do, so I had to guesstimate.

But we didn't have as bad a month as I would expect. I estimated an extra $1000 in expenses and I think I was about dead on. We spent $550 on travelling. Which was still pretty good in all.

However for the month of September we spent $230 for gas, $110 overbudget. We fortunately only spent $537.92 on eating out because our parents paid for some of the meals. We also ate at home quite a bit spending $455.52 on groceries for the month.

I had been loading up on wine prior to my parents, in-laws, and friends arrival so I only had to spend $48.95 on wine in September since I had close to 6 bottles on hand. We finished 1-2 bottles a night depending on how many people were drinking.

Considering on average we had 2 extra people everyday this month I think we had a fantastic month budgetwise. We didn't totally blow our budget and I saved a ton by prebuying wine and some food stuff. Plus we were able to eat out some meals at cheap food court places which allowed us to only pay for ourselves instead of everyone.

All in all a nice month. We still have guests, everyone's finally leaving on Monday. I'm beat, this has been a stressful month and it's still carrying over to this month. This is our last really spendy weekend.

Part III: Splitting Dating Costs?

This part of the finances of an unmarried couple applies more to newly dating couples. I've found from interviewing dating couples, they fall into a routine where they both pay for things and feel it evens out. No one ever feels that one person is more put out than the other.

However when you start dating, I've heard from many singles it's tough. It's expensive and you never know how it will turn out. And they often hear from married/coupled friends to go on cheap dates. Which is great when you've already started more serious dating, but the reality is most people do not start out that way.

I think a perfect first date is coffee or a happy hour drink. Why? Because it's a cheap way to figure out if you have any chemistry. And if you don't it's easy to end the date while not suffering through an appetizer, dinner, and dessert. Then the next date can be a full dinner potentially or lunch.

But why is dating so expensive? Consider that most people will go out to dinner and have an appetizer, drink, dessert. Where I live, when all that is said and done with tax and tip at a restaurant where entrees cost $15-20 (average of chain restaurants), for a date you are looking at $60. Then a movie? Or music bar, etc. It adds up fast. But who pays?

Most men and women say men, but I question this. If both people are exploring the possibility of a relationship why isn't more the norm to just split the date? Why is the burden placed on one more than the other?

Our current roomie is single and he moans about the cost of dating. As a single guy it gets expensive to date. Plus even free dates like hiking costs him money because he has to rent a car, gas, and still pack lunch. Another cost of dating is looking good. This is more a cost factor for women than men. Having to maintain themselves to be able to attract the other sex.

So how did you split the initial dating costs? When and how did you switch to a more informal splitting of costs? Or is there a large disparity of income which makes one party more likely to treat the other?

Part II: Buying a house while being unmarried

Well yesterday we discussed how difficult it can be to merge finances as a couple. It appears to be increasingly difficult as you get older. Even harder to navigate is whether to buy a house together. At around 30 whether you are single or not, it seems many people get bitten by a bug to buy a home.

But the question is how do you buy a house together if you are an unmarried couple? The simplest route and one which I took is buying the house 50/50. Where both people put down approximately equal amounts and each pay 50% of the mortgage. Then if you split up, the house is split 50/50.

However the real trouble arises when there is a disparity between the couple regarding the down payment and affordability. K mentioned that they were in negotiations for how they will manage buying a house together as an unmarried couple. First problem is her BF will be supplying 90% of the DP, and she will supply 10%. This is causing a bigger problem because they have to negotiate all details in a written agreement because her BF's DP is a "gift" from his parents. Hence they need to settle what they are going to do.

BF wants the equity to be split on DP. But K wants to keep the equity she pays down because she'll be paying 50% of the mortgage. So I'm not sure what they are going to do. Because financially this is not just a business transaction, it's a relationship. I can see both sides of the argument, BF is taking more risk in buying the home by putting more money down. But K is also taking risk and she's paying down equity so she wants to keep her dollars.

But what is the answer? I guess we'll have to see what they decide to do. My advice? Don't buy the house, just get married then buy the house and it won't matter.

Part I: Finances as an Unmarried Couple...

Managing your finances as a unmarried couple is tough. There are many stages of dating, and even trickier is the many stages of finances. This weekend an old roommate (K) visited and is coming back next weekend. She's been with her BF for 3 years and they are 29 and 31 years old respectively.

So we were talking privately when she asked how DH and I manage our finances. We all had been joking about not having money and DH said "I never see my paycheck..." So she asked if we didn't have separate accounts? So we dicussed how to merge finances.

K said that even after dating three years and planning on moving in together next year, they hadn't discussed finances at all. She had no idea about his money yet, because they took turns paying for eating out. Then they knew the other person shopped and bought stuff but she didn't know if he had CC debt. She said it was tough because they were older, independent, and used to not answering to each other about every penny. They earned similar amounts of money but they didn't reveal to each other how much in retirement savings they had.

So she was a bit scared of sharing accounts and money. Having to be accountable to each other. But the plan was to move in and split all common bills in half. I couldn't give her much suggestions because I had nothing to hide when I met, moved in and married my DH.

I think that being an older, more established couple makes the merging of finances more difficult. You suddenly have to ask the other person to reveal their financial background. You have to share important decisions like buying a house, car, debt. You no longer have the final and ultimate say. It's so much harder to compromise when you've lived without ever needing to.

I don't know if K will ever have just one account. From the way it sounds even if they marry, K and her BF want to keep separate accounts. But I did suggest really discussing their future finances and finding out how much savings and debt they each have. She metioned they have glossed over these discussions but not in detail. He knows she's got a ton of student loans, and she knows he doesn't have much saved. But the details.

Part II...buying a home...

Loaning money to family...

I was just thinking about Boomie's question to not help my BIL out. I guess I'm old fashioned and I haven't learned my lesson at all. I know the saying never loan money to family. But the truth is DH and I aren't the type exactly to say no.

A lot of people I think are the same way. I think we could say no if the circumstances were right like alcoholism, gambling, or drug use. But if the family member were in dire circumstances because of job loss, medical illness, etc, I think many people would have trouble saying no.

I think it's probably better to say no, but the reality is it's hard to. Plus in the end it's just money. You can earn more, save more. I get that philosophy from my mom. She's unfortunately set a terrible example of supporting my grandparents. But personally I would feel really greedy and stingy if all I did was save my money and never shared it.

I enjoy giving people presents. I also don't expect to get paid back. For my BIL well, we used to pay for his cell phone on our family plan until he got a girlfriend and started abusing the minutes. Then we kicked him off. Was it wrong to get him a plan? Maybe but it was cheap and easy for a young man starting out.

I buy the newpaper and phone for my grandmother whose a very fixed budget. I used to mail them gift cards to the supermarket. I guess this is another reason why it's so difficult for me to focus on paying off the house. DH and I feel great responsibility for our families. And we need to be able to help them out in case of any emergency. So having accesible cash is a necessity.

Perhaps not the wisest financial decisions. But we do realize the position we're in. And we do realize that we're not there to solve all problems. But we can try to guide them to a better solution.

Do you loan your family money? What about friends? We've also had good karma about being loaned money from our current tenant, so I won't say I wouldn't pay back the favor. In the end to us it's still just money.

September Net Worth Update

Wowsa. Great month. Sure I spent more of our cash on hand because we installed our gas fireplace, paid for our two trips with our respective parents and basically spent more than usual eating out.

However our retirement accounts hit $65k with returns and savings. Also our mortgage hit $444k. I'm dying for it to get below $440k. And I decreased the couch owed on the CC. Small steps towards greater financial security.

Eating Out Poll Results

What an interesting mix of answers. It appears that there is a very even split of people who eat a lot and those who eat out very little. About 60% of people eat out $25-100/month, while 25% of people eat out $100-200/month. But 4% of people spend over $200/month while 8% never eat out at all.

I guess it depends on where you live, and what point in your life you are. The lifestyle choices are probably shaped due to interesting circumstances. I know that Fabulously Broke in the City a guest poster, lives out of a hotel room without an apartment. Because of this I can guess they eat out more than average. But they save tons of money by not paying rent or mortgage. A very neat lifestyle.

I am rather impressed by the results of the poll. It seems not that many people are indulging in eating out as polls of the average americans would claim.

Living without health insurance...

I didn't post yesterday because my BIL ended up going to the Emergency Room last night. Unfortunately as a graduate student he does not have much money nor does he have health insurance. His medical insurance is going to student health on campus and then the hospital at the medical school.

Unfortunately he has been feeling terrible and there was nothing else to do but go to the ER. So we did. But we're not exactly sure what the bill will be. He had a ton of tests done including the urine test, ultrasound, and blood test. It might be an ulcer. The doctor referred him to a specialist.

Anyway because of his lack of real health insurance, DH and I covered him. We signed the responsibility form because my in-laws don't have the cash in US dollars and have to go home cash out their stocks and convert it to american dollars.

I wonder what the full bill will be. We just had to pay $1k, but I have a feeling that we'll end up paying substantially more. This insanity calls for reform, but most Americans would disagree.

Would you be willing to pay more taxes for a universilized system?

Financial kid choices...

I find it interesting that so many people say have children when you want them, there is no financial right time. And I tend to agree. But I wonder about people who have children while in a precarious financial situation if it's wrong to have children?

Not because it's financially difficult, but because of the psychological strain it can have on a marriage? If 50% of marriages end in divorce, and the leading factor contributing to divorce is fighting over money, then can increasing financial problems due to having children lead to divorce?

So while it's great to have kid at any time, I wonder if people should consider their financial position, thus reducing the risk to their marriage dissolving? That if there are less pressures financially people are happier in the marriage and dealing with normal family issues? That a couple constantly worried and arguing about money could have made it if not for the finances? That the extra burden is what tipped the scale towards divorce.

If you are divorced, was it due to finances? And might it have been mitigated if you had planned your expenses, especially kids?

Lucky moves or smart choices?

DH and I have often been envied by friends because we to have our financial lives mapped out. Another blogger asked me how did I afford to buy a house in CA making less than the median US salary? And how did we get so lucky to be financial pretty secure in our 20s?

Were these all lucky moves or was it smart planning on our part?

I know luck played a huge part in our finances. But honestly smart moves also played a role. We are scientists by nature and we calculated the odds of every financial move we made. When we first bought a condo in CA, we thought the market's peaked if it drops what will we do? We decided it doesn't matter, it costs as much as renting. Let's do it.

We decided we could easily afford to hang onto the home during a downturn. Plus because we were so young, we decided we could only afford a 1 bedroom though the bank said easily 2 bedrooms. Most of our friends said we were stupid buying a 1 bedroom because they are harder to sell. Also we bought in a lesser location because we could not afford to live close to work, and not in a good school district. We compromised and weighed all these factors and still chose the area because it worked for us. We also decided that we would take all of our savings and buy a home. The market looked terrible and we didn't have the time to research our portfolio's like we had in the past.

So was it really luck or a smart choice? How many people are willing to live in a tiny one bedroom as a couple? And how many are willing to drive a bit further to afford to buy? These are choices we made that contributed to our financial security.

Then we moved cross country and bought another place. We again decided against a house again. This time we could have bought a single family home, much farther out. But as we were not having children for at least 3-4 years, we decided a townhouse would be a perfect compromise. We would be able to live closer and thus saving a lot of time on our commute. Sure we paid a premium for a great location, but the commute turned into a blessing.

With DH working full time and school part-time, our time together is limited. By saving on commuting, he is able to focus on finishing school faster and thus increasing our income. We wisely decided to buy a townhouse which has space for us to have 2 children. Though we planned on only one child before moving. We also considered that our townhouse is large enough for our parents to live with us and provide childcare for an extended period of time if necessary.

But because of the location both of our parents feel comfortable living with us and not driving, while not being isolated in the suburbs. Instead they would be able to walk and ride the bus into the city, shop, and occupy their time easily. They are very happy with our choice, the only problem is that we lack a full bath on the first floor, something which we had been searching for when buying a townhouse. This was to accommodate our elderly visitors.

So financially our townhouse has been a great investment. We pay about the same as renting a townhouse. But of course our neighbors do leave a lot to be desired. Thus our sacrifice of having neighbors, while I question it, probably is smarter financially than a single family home.

But at our current ages 28 and almost 30, most of our contemporaries are struggling to afford single family homes. They feel a townhouse is beneath them. That it's not the right place to raise a family. They are saving to get into a home. But we've already gotten ourselves used to owning, building equity, and we understand this is a temporary choice until we can finally afford a home we love. But how many people again are willing to make this sacrifice? So smart move or luck?

Third, we've just about saved $75k in retirement savings in a little less than 2 years. All through hardwork and sacrifice. During our "leaner" years I told DH when we make "real" money our lifestyle will not change until our retirement options are maxed out. We won't build up to it, we'll take it off the top before taxes, rent/mortgage, everything. It was to be a non-negotiable, budgeted line item. We did exactly that and it's been a painless transition. Now our raises/bonuses go to school tuition (an unexpected expense because we didn't know it would be so expensive). But our lifestyle is still pretty cushy.

Finally, we own two newer cars that while are not fancy, are workable. They do not match our "income" and they do not always fit our needs. But how often do we need larger/fancier cars? We can rent or drive both cars if necessary. We were forced to buy 2 newer cars starting out because unlike many of our contemporaries, our parents never gifted us with an older, used car. More than a few people were given their parents older car as a first car. So did we get lucky, or was it a smart choice? Luck would have been getting a free car, smart was sticking with our cheaper cars even though we make a lot more.

So has all these financial decisions been smart or lucky? I have to explain a bit because people always ask how do we manage? Not easily and everything we've done has required sacrifice. We've chosen not to buy new cars, have children, or shop all the time because we're trying to build our financial foundation now. But everything comes with a price tag. If you review your own purchases, did you make the decision consciously or not? Were the choices you made lucky or smart?

Careers and Student Loans?

Do you regret taking out student loans to go to college? Do you regret your career? Do you wish that you had chosen another career? If so what has stopped you from doing so? Was it finances? Time commitments? Or have you gone back to school to retool your career?

I wonder what role the earning power of a potential degree plays in people going to college with loans? Or going back to earn another degree. Where do people draw the line?

I think it would be awesome if we could all do something we loved. Or will always love. There is always the possibility that after 10 years or even 5 years you don't like your chosen field.

Right now about 5 friends who became school teachers are quitting. Yes, the friends who student taught and appeared to really love kids, they are quitting. It's too hard, too much stress. People think teachers get the summers off, but it's probably because otherwise they couldn't deal with the kids. And it's getting worse each year.

So of those, a few are taking classes trying to figure out a new career. They thought in college this was their lifetime career, but things have changed. So I can't question them obviously in real life whether their future decisions are influenced by $$$. But I do believe it's hard to make a decision not financially based. Also more than a few did tell me they wonder why they ever chose teaching.

So are we really retooling because we didn't know what we wanted at 18? Or because what we wanted at 22 morphed so much that what we enjoy at 32 is different? And what we enjoy at 42 will be different again? Are we now redefining ourselves ever decade? And if so are we doing it for financial benefits or emotional ones?

Is it necessary to stick with a job that makes a person unhappy purely for financial gain? Is that the difference with today's generation. That we are less likely to stick to something that makes us unhappy no matter the financial repercussions?

The Purpose Driven Budget

A second guest post by another friend from a message board cjohnston. Excellent ideas about budgeting and handling finances in general. Please enjoy...

The Purpose Driven Budget

Author Rick Warren authored several books over the past couple of years using Purpose Driven as a theme. The Purpose Driven Church and The Purpose Driven Life are two that quickly come to mind. Both books have been highly successful and have become standards for Followers during the new millennium.

Leveraging off Warren’s all things Purpose Driven, I propose the Purpose Driven Budget.

Let’s face it. Developing a budget is for most of us about as fun as sitting in the dentist chair, hearing the high pitched whine of the high speed drill and waiting for the drill tip to hit the nerve the Novocain missed. As a matter of fact, the dentist example may be even more pleasant.

Where is this all going? About 18 months ago, my wife Diana and I attended Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace University being sponsored at a nearby church. At the end of the second class, our homework was to develop a budget, or as Ramsey calls it, a spending plan. We needed to spend every penny of our income in budget form on something. On paper and on purpose.

The process took an entire Saturday with both of us working to reach a magical zero at the end of each week and ultimately at the end of each calendar month. Remember, we were to spend every penny. But the key to the process was to spend it on purpose. What a novel idea.

The other key is you will see I used the phrase both of us. It was a team effort. Each previous attempt was done with me noodleing out a budget and then laying down the gauntlet with no buy in from my spouse. BIG MISTAKE. But while working together was a big piece of the puzzle what made it all happen and was the cornerstone was a spending plan. And even more important, on paper, on purpose.

Frankly, that process was a breakthrough for me. And us. For years both of us had tried various forms of budgeting and ultimately ended up chucking it a few weeks into the process. But throughout those failed budgets was the misconception of trying to save the money, not spend it. Sure, it’s a matter of semantics. But for the first time, we had a budget that worked. It wasn’t perfect. It took a few months of tweaking to get it to behave in a somewhat predictable manner. But overall it worked.

So why the difference and why does it work better? First, it’s always more fun to spend money than to budget it. For the spouse or partner who doesn’t have money and finances top of mind, a budget is seen as a control technique. But a spending plan. Now that’s something they can identify with.

On paper and on purpose though does something else. Getting the numbers out on paper allows you to see where the money is going. It gets the numbers out of your head and in front of your eyes. It’s funny how your mind works better when it is working in tandem with one of your other senses. You now see your spending plan, line item by line item. Savings, groceries, clothing, charitable and church giving, gifts, travel and home expenses. The good, the bad and the down right ugly. But for those who now have a purpose in getting this information out on paper and have actually spent it on purpose they can now see some surprising results. And for many, it’s the first time the long jumble of numbers is out of their gray matter and in front of their eyes.

The Financial Peace kit contained a list of recommended percentages of your income that should be allocated for each of the categories. It suggests you need some money going toward entertainment and other fun categories. No need to beat yourself up when allocating some money toward those items.

But the whole process is to get the numbers in front of you and then compare them to what the recommended percentages should be. At that point, it’s simply a matter of establishing the priorities of lowering the amounts that are too high and raising the amounts that are too low. It’s a process that can take a few months or several depending on where the excess is. If it’s in spending on things like food or fun, you simply make the quick adjustment. If it’s asset items like homes, cars, boats or other expensive toys, the process may take longer and be more painful and expensive to adjust. But with the on paper on purpose process, you may now see for the first time why and where your money is going.

For those who are in financial turmoil, even after doing this process, it may be wise to pick up a copy of Dave Ramsey’s Total Money Makeover. The book will help you look at the myths of money and develop a plan that will allow you to gain control again. Dave will help you take baby steps that are logical and simple.

On paper, on purpose. The Purpose Driven Budget. The process that will ultimately guide you back toward financial peace and building wealth.

Is Credit Necessary?

A Guest post by Lemony, a friend from a message board. She submitted her thoughts on credit, Dave Ramsey, and whether a score is important.

I'm a big fan of Dave Ramsey's Total Money Makeover. His no-nonsense get-out-of-debt plan is something that can work for the average Joe. While my husband and I were in Canada we paid off $70,000 worth of debt in two years on an $85,000/year salary using Dave Ramsey's method, which we had tailored to our own needs. We cut up most of our extraneous credit cards, we used cash money to buy things, we planned for expenditures in advance and we invested a good portion of our wealth.

Then we moved to America and everything changed.

My husband was offered a lucrative position at a big American company and we thought it was a dream come true. We figured the big move next door would be as simple as going on an extended vacation. But we were horribly mistaken. We've been here a year and the messes keep piling up. We're constantly having to file new paperwork for USCIS, the DHS, the IRS and whatever governing body happens to call on us for kicks. Our biggest problem thus far, however, has been that necessary evil called CREDIT HISTORY.

Being Dave Ramsey followers we figured credit history was unimportant. That credit cards
themselves were unimportant. We were woefully mistaken. Because we have no credit history in America, getting any kind of service has felt impossible. We had to put down $500.00 as a security deposit on our electricity service, $1, 000.00 as a fee for our cell phone service and $2700.00 down on our apartment rental, just as some examples. We still haven't gotten those fees back. We just bought a house and had to pay fees to the mortgage lender to check our Canadian history. We still couldn't get the best rate. If we had an American credit history it would never have been a concern.

Our one saving grace was a local credit union who offered us a credit card when we first moved here. The reason they gave it to us, they said, was because they had a good history with my husband's employer and they trusted that company's employees. So, thanks to the big American company, we got one little Visa card from a small local bank. There are no special features of this card. It's just a standard 18%, no annual fee Visa. But the fact that they report to the credit bureaus has given us a shot at being recognized as real people, with honest intentions to consume huge quantities of American merchandise, and then pay for it. We use our little Visa card whenever we can. We pay in full and then we use it again.

I still adhere to most of Dave Ramsey's basic principles - don't spend more than you earn, save for your future and give, give, give. But the cash cow that made him famous - the Stop-Using-Credit-Cards-Completely mantra he pushes - just doesn't work for the little guy. It's horribly unfortunate, but its true.

I still adhere to most of Dave Ramsey's basic principles - don't spend more than you earn, save for your future and give, give, give. But the cash cow that made him famous - the Stop-Using-Credit-Cards-Completely mantra he pushes - just doesn't work for the little guy. It's horribly unfortunate, but its true.

Debt Perspective?

Okay I was just thinking how funny it is I'm sitting feeling guilty for owing $1194 on my 0% credit card for my couch. I just paid $350 today because $230 was old couch sale and $100/month I determined each month is a bill. Yes it's a debt and it bothers me more now that ever having previously used a 0% CC. Probably because I'm blogging about it and it makes me feel like I'm cheating.

Then I sat back and questioned what the heck am I doing worrying about $844 of CC debt? I owe close to $500k between my mortgage and student loans. Can you see the disconnect? I owe close to half a million dollars and I'm sweating owing $844 on a couch?

Where is my perspective? Why am I not more worried about the mortgage and student loan? Why am I not killing myself over those two debts? I owe 2x the average mortgage of the US. I read many blogs about people complaining about their CC debt and I have mortgage more than 4x what someone owing $100k does. And I'm not frightened out of my mind?


This thought stumped and bothered me a lot. I nearly keeled over when I realized the impact of what we owe. We owe more than most people's CC debt, car loans, student loans, and mortgages combined. I think it's the fact that everyone is so focused on not having "bad" debt. That they forget that a mortgage is debt as well. That we don't own our house, we're just renting it from the bank. That we are using borrowed money to further our educations. Sure those are suppossedly good debt but it's still debt.

So anyone paying off debt will probably be crying out against my 0% CC, while cheering my enourmous mortgage as "good" debt. As necessary debt. How crazy is that?

I'm hopeful that things will get better and we'll be able to pay off our student loans before the interest ever hits. I'm saving money to maintain our home properly and our cars. I am using this blog to keep from getting "incomtitis" and adjusting our lifestyle to what our income is.

I guess I'd love to live large one day and who konws when that will be. But we're moving there one saved dollar at a time.

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Hi All, I'm thinking of moving my site to a Wordpress site. Does anyone have experience in moving a site? I would greatly appreciate help on this move. Thanks LAL...email me please livingalmost@gmail.com Thanks again...

Living on $25/week Groceries?

Can it be done? Yes, but is it fun? No. Is it healthy? That's sort of a major toss up on what defines healthy. First off to live on $25/week for 2 people you really need to take vitamins. We lived like this when we first meet in 2000 because we were pretty broke.

Our income just barely covered all our bills and I had student loans about $10k that I wanted to pay off in 1 year and I did. DH made $18k gross, I made $30k gross, and our rent at the time was $1100/month for 1 bd. Hey Southern CA was and still is expensive. After taxes, looking at our old paystubs DH cleared I believe $500/bimonthly and I cleared $600/bimonthly.

We also had a car loan of $150/month, high car insurance because we were independent 20 and 22 year olds with full covereage = $300/month and no other way to get to school/work. If you live in So CA, you'll understand when I say there is no public transit. So after paying all our bills, I used to budget $25/week for the two of us.

For one thing our menu rarely changed and we ate a lot of the same food. We ate a ton of pasta, tomato sauce, and ground beef. All of it was bought at costco. For variation when Chicken breast was $1.69/lb we bought that. This was our staple meal. To add vegetables we would buy either canned or frozen veggies and throw it in. We ate this about 3-4x week for lunch/dinner. Another cheap meal was rice, chinese veggies, and pork pieces. We would stir fry the pork in black bean sauce, soy sauce + sugar. We didn't eat anything else, in case we didn't make enough dinner for leftovers, our lunches were packaged noodles.

To me coupon shopping did not help because we didn't buy any prepackaged foods (too expensive). We bought tomato sauce (prego), ground beef, chicken, and pasta. There also weren't coupons for chinese veggies, rice, etc. This was the most economical shopping.

We planned our menus, shopped solely from a list, and stuck to $25/week cash. If it went a penny over we returned it. During this time we also had a lot of free food from school, friends were generous and invited us over, and when our parents visited they would graciously fill our freezer with meat.

I don't reccomend eating this way long term. I don't think it provides enough nutrients and vitamins for the daily requirements. Personally we would have cut cable if we had it, didn't have cell phones, only a home phone, shared internet with neighbors. So our only flexibility in the budget was food. As our income increased it was the first area we immediately increased. Also we probably could have spent more if we weren't trying to pay off a school loan and save a cash EF. Turns out our savings allowed us to buy a house 2 years later.

Now I guess we spend $150/month per person on groceries. We eat very luxuriously and I admit it. I buy steak, seafood, lobster, chicken, cheese, fresh veggies and fruits, pretty much anything DH desires. I still don't buy much prepackaged foods, but I do buy expensive staples. How do I justify it? Well DH says he'd rather eat good food and not watch cable than eat crap food and watch tv.

Home versus Investments

People ask why I would not pay off my home faster than 30 years. Well for myself personally our home is worth a lot about $600k, so if I paid off our home it would be disproportionally a large percentage of our net worth.

Home equity and investments in Stocks/Bonds I think needs to be balanced. When considering a portfolio home equity does play a role in stabilzing and diversifying most people's investments. Unfortunately for us, we had a lot of home equity and still do, but little equity investments. This I think is a terrible position to be in, home rich and cash poor. Thus to me the next 5 years is to be spent bulking up our equity positions and retirement funds. That way our overall portfolio will be balanced.

Right now we have $155k in home equity with our DP and equity paydown. This is not counting any appreciation period. I think it hasn't moved since we bought it in 2005, I think below market price. We also did some major improvements which probably have helped the value including repairing a retaining wall for parking and installing a retaining wall for the backyard. Cost of those projects have been minimal, and currently we're installing a gas fireplace which is the first major cost incurred.

However, we unfortunately only have $61k in retirement and $30k in cash. This means we have $91k equity position. That means we have 63% of our net worth tied up in our house. In reality it's more like 80% because the $30k is partially an EF and the rest is cash for DH's school tuition (so it's gone though we're holding onto it). We carry too much cash I feel for people in our 20s, except that we need it to pay for tuition every three months. This is too risky to be investing in stocks or mutual funds of any sort.

This really scares me to have so much tied up in an illiquid asset. I don't think we're in a great financial position. We have too much money tied up in one asset. And as most people know tying up any portofolio weighted too heavily in one asset/stock is a bad idea. It increases the risk/volatility of the portfolio.

Thus I am hoping in the next 5 years to be at 50% home equity and 50% investments. I think this is a realistic goal. But our precarious position is an example of why paying off a home when you have few other assets can actually increase your risk.

Another point is that when we have enough in our taxable account to pay off our mortgage in one fell swoop I'll feel more comfortable. Until then we're going to hang on to cash so we can easily ride out a job loss for say at least 3 years and potentially 5 years. Chances are that if we lost our jobs, we'd have a substantial severance (happened last time 8 months but potentially 12+ months), and we'd likely find a job before time ran out. Another caveat is we've diversified our risk by broadening our career goals and opportunities with our degrees, hence we're more able to find a job we like and will pay well.

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Dumping good money after bad...

Okay our Ford Focus is needing a lot of work. Sigh, 70k miles on a 2000 car and more repairs. We couldn't afford to get out of it before, but now we can. Suggeted by two different places, we need to do the water pump, timing belt, probably the clutch, the gas gauge, the radiator fluid. All in all it's getting close to $3k and the car is worth $4-5k.

Now it doesn't need to be done instantaneously, but it will need work in the next year. I'd like to consider dumping this car and instead buying another used car in the $4-5k range. What I'm looking at are 97-98 subaru wagons. We could use the AWD and they are known to be reliable cars.

Now more about the Focus, we have totally redone the car twice. One someone smashed into us, and once DH hit someone else. Even with that we have had to replace the spark plugs, retune/clean the engine because the spark plugs were misfiring @ 30k miles, replace the brakes/rotors at 24k miles (we were told this is not unusual with fords), replace the gas pump, replace the steering column, and the door locks are starting stick as well as the hatch door lock doesn't shut well. Also two rims are bent (DH's fault).

Now I realize we're pretty much rebuilt this car it feels like multiple times, but I just don't understand why it's such a wreck. I have a 99 corolla and all we've done is change the brake pads and rotors once (recently at almost 90k miles), oil change and services. Nothing else. Runs like a dream. I can easily see myself keeping the car for another 10 years.

But what is the potential for keeping the Ford long term? Are we throwing away good money after bad? Should we suck it up and keep the know crap car instead of risking buying someone else's lemon? If we do all these repairs and then the engine or tranny blows (again fords have bad raps), then we really just flushed money down the toilet.

I know this is a case of sunk costs. But before we sink the $$$ into a car we aren't sure is worth it, I need to think about what the possible pros and cons are of doing so.

FWIW, we're not trying to spend money on a new car, hence we're trying to get a car for approximately the same value and mileage. Unfortunately it's 2-3 years older because Subarus are rated as more reliable cars according to consumer reports.

Maybe I'm being stupid and greedy, and I should just stick with our paid for car. We would not finance the car, but it's risky to trade a known evil for potentially an unknown entity. My DH is voting dumping the car because he doesn't like the idea of sinking more money in.

This will be a long debate probably. With guests in town we'll have a lot of time to mull over the different options and examine any deals that may come up.

Carnival of Personal Finance #118

The #118 Carnival of Personal Finance is up at Money, Matter, and More Musings. 88 great entries in this week's carnival. Included is my article on "expecting an inheritance?" Check it out.

Couple of articles I enjoyed were "Accepting Financial Responsibility," by To One Million and Beyond and "Which Jones Family are you Trying to Keep up with" by Mytwodollars. The first article asks people to realize that Debt doesn't happen overnight and they need to take personal responsiblity for the debt. This is a hard concept in today's society of the blaming everyone else. The second article just looks at people in debt trying to keep up with other people.

Enjoy the Carnival.